In listening to coach Lincoln Riley talk about players and situations over the last more than two and a half years now at USC, it's become clear that one of his favorite topics to indulge are the players who prove him wrong.

Redshirt senior nose tackle Kobe Pepe is in the process of doing that.

A simple question about Pepe's progress, asked after practice Wednesday, had Riley detailing at length and rather candidly the big defensive lineman's growth as he's seen it unfold.

"He and I were actually talking last night – when we got him at the beginning, I didn’t know if he was going to make it. I mean, to be honest, I just didn’t know if he was going to be one of the ones that were here that were going to survive, or that were going to kinda just float away," Riley said. "And he’s done a great job, man. I mean, he was easily the most out-of-shape player on this roster. Some of it, his doing. Some of it, the injuries he’s faced before we got here. I mean, he’s just totally changed his body. And he has, he put himself in position where he could contribute, and certainly this system defensively, fits a guy like him a lot more than what we were doing in the past."

Pepe's recollection aligns with Riley's retelling of their early conversations.

"That's definitely what it was when he first got here. Like I said, I had those talks with him in his office saying things I have to change, improve on. He did, he told me, he was straight up with me, which I respect, 'If you don't do these things, you're not going to fit,'" Pepe recalls. "I was like, 'All right, coach, I got you. I'm going to change, do what you all need [me] to do to improve.'"

A confluence of factors has helped position Pepe -- a three-star local prospect from St. John Bosco HS in the 2020 recruiting class -- to have a shot at a real role for the first time in his five years in the program after totaling just 3 tackles in 3 career games played to this point.

First, the transformation Pepe has made, as Riley noted. Second, the change in defensive coordinators/schemes and the renewed emphasis on prioritizing sheer size up front. And third, the reality that the Trojans just don't have a lot of depth on the interior of the defensive line, where it's Bear Alexander, veteran Vanderbilt transfer Nate Clifton, the hope that sophomore Elijah Hughes can make a leap into a bigger role, the hope that Wyoming transfer Gavin Meyer can contribute ... and then a lot of questions.

"I think he realizes that, and sees that window of opportunity, and he’s got some real size and mass in there. But, certainly, you feel like he’s gonna have the opportunity to have a role," Riley said. "But, yeah, proud of him. From the guys that were here when we first started, which is not many now left, it's starting to be fewer and fewer, he’s one of the ones that I’m most proud of from where he was a couple of years ago to now.”

Pepe certainly had some of his own doubts about his future at USC, entering the transfer portal in December of 2022 before ultimately opting to stick it out here.

"At that point, it was again a talk with Coach Riley and I just felt like with my family, just see what was out there for me. But what got me to stay was [defensive line coach Shaun] Nua. Coach Nua, before Coach Henny [new DL coach Eric Henderson, who works jointly with Nua] was here, Coach Nua was like my rock, my guy, giving me motivation, teaching me how to better myself and stuff like that. Also coming from injuries, he was there for me," Pepe said.

"I really wanted to stay here. USC's my home and it's going to be my home till whenever it's done."

Nua said his message to Pepe at that time was straight to the point ...

"Very simple -- 'You have an opportunity ahead of you' -- and it's part of the process of developing young players, developing players in general. Some people get it early, some people never get it, some people just fight all through the end, and I'm just excited with his progression," Nua said. "He's a young man that has matured a lot, so we're fired up to have Kobe."

A lot of Pepe's transformation has come away from the field, as Riley noted, in terms of getting in better shape and building his body to what it needs to be to compete at this level.

In that regard, USC director of football sports performance Bennie Wylie has been a key mentor along the way as well, constantly pushing Pepe to keep up and stay on the trajectory needed.

"At the time, I didn't like it. He was like, 'Kobe, you gotta keep going, you gotta keep going.' Everybody was running, like, 'Why are you always talking to me?'" Pepe recalled. "But looking back at it, I respect it. He got me where -- I'm still here. That's a huge testament to both myself but also the coaches as well. ...

"He's like a huge mentor to me. It's not even huge talks, it's more like, 'Come on, man, this is what we talked about during summer workouts, conditioning, what did you do all that for?' Those kind of things, just keep pushing me."

With the move from former DC Alex Grinch's scheme that prioritized speed over size to the emphasis under new DC D'Anton Lynn that the Trojans simply had to get bigger up front, Pepe -- looking every bit of his 6-foot-2, 315 pounds, as listed on the roster -- feels the most comfortable he has in his time in the program.

"To be honest, I love this defense and I feel I'm a perfect fit for it. Now, it's just down to technique and Coach Henny is going to help me with that, and like Coach Wylie would always say, 'Keep my head down, keep working,'" Pepe said.

"With that scheme, they wanted me to drop a lot more weight, but this year going to the Big Ten it's more maintaining and keeping the body fat off and building muscle mass."

It's not just the coaches singing Pepe's praises, though.

Linebacker Easton Mascarenas-Arnold wasn't here a year ago, transferring in this offseason from Oregon State, but he knows enough of Pepe's story to see how much this season means to him.

"I think just his intentment. He's coming every day a little bit harder. He's in the backfield every play disrupting, holding double teams for me," he said.

For Pepe, it's just about proving to the coaches that he can do that consistently enough to show that not only does he belong in this program but that he may finally belong on the field on Saturdays.

"Consistency. You gonna hear me say consistency a lot, but it really is that. 'Kobe, bring the fricken fire, bring the energy,'" Nua said. "That is something that he has to understand. Sometimes he has good days, but I'm like, 'You've got to have elite days every day.' Take his game to the next level. 'You're just not a big nose -- that's your role but we expect you to do extra.' He's a fighter."